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1 Helpful Vote
Sail Date: February 2015
We boarded this ship with great optimism after i had been given the all clear after going down with cancer on my previous cruise on Davina maiden voyage to Miami with cancer. MSC knew of my cancer and when we arrived at the ship we ... Read More
We boarded this ship with great optimism after i had been given the all clear after going down with cancer on my previous cruise on Davina maiden voyage to Miami with cancer. MSC knew of my cancer and when we arrived at the ship we were whisked away to our cabin in minutes. From there all down hill apart from the general staff who worked dammed hard for us. First dirty pillows and lumpy replacements and a smaller cabin than on previous MSC ships. Food mediocre to the point that our waiter sent one of my dishes back (would not serve it). Not much luck with the chef either he sent his underling to talk to me. Entertainment poor compared with previous ships. Reception staff efficient but unable to make the simplest of decisions, even the officers had to refer the mildest of problems to Italy. Hygiene on t enforced with the passengers on entry to a from restaurants nor did the officers or stall i watched clean their hand before handling food or utensils in the self service restaurant. Result many sick passengers (rumor had it best part of half the passengers) with a virus that was carried by hand and through the air con. Hospital on the ship only interested in money, my examination, temperature taken and listen to my lungs on the back. no pulse or blood pressure. Result miss diagnosis. When the ship reached Adelaide I took myself to hospital put into isolation as I had Adenovirus and bacterial pneumonia (highly infectious). Does not end there. Wife forced to sign my credit account and then held captive on the ship until she signed a disclaimer exonerating MSC . To add insult to injury for this we paid over £4000 per person almost double what the Australians had to pay. Read Less
Sail Date: February 2015
The cruise went from Dubai to Perth Australia. It left on February 21, 2015, and was 33 days long. My husband and I will not be using this cruise line again. The Pros • The ship was well decorated. • The room steward was ... Read More
The cruise went from Dubai to Perth Australia. It left on February 21, 2015, and was 33 days long. My husband and I will not be using this cruise line again. The Pros • The ship was well decorated. • The room steward was good. • The dining room server was good. The Cons • We could not book excursions on line. If you called up, they asked if you book through them or through an agent. If it was through an agent, they said you had to book through the agent. • We pulled down a list of excursions early on and then the list disappeared and you could no longer view it. When we called for some of the excursions, their agents did not have the same excursions as what was on the previous list and they did not have a new list of excursions to view. • We could not get information on needed Visa’s. Most ships we have sailed on in the past have blanket visa’s for many of the ports. This ship did also; however, you could not get this information ahead of time. Finally, about 1 week before the cruise we were told we only needed an Indian Visa. When we got to the port, we were told that we also needed an Australian visa. It was a good thing that we had done this on our own. • The MSC Orchestra has the capacity to carry 3,223 passengers. There were only 6 tread mills, 4 exercise bike (2 recumbent and 2 upright). The one recumbent bike was broken most of the trip. They had some other equipment; however, most people like the tread mills and the bikes. This meant that it was nearly impossible to use the equipment due to the amount of people waiting in line. • There is no potable water available in the dining room. If you want water, you must pay for bottled water. Otherwise you must go to the cafeteria. • If you want coffee or tea after your meal in the dining room, you must pay for it. Otherwise you must go to the cafeteria. • If you wanted hot chocolate, you must pay for it. • Ice cream is only available without charge in the dining room; otherwise you must pay for it. • If you want chocolate, you must pay for it. They never even put chocolate on your bed at night. • The pizza was tough. It was hard to cut it even with a knife. • The chicken cubes on the salad bar were so tough that it was very hard to cut let alone chew it. • There is not iced tea or lemonade in the cafeteria. You only have coffee, tea and water. • In the cafeteria, no one went around filling up your coffee and/or tea. If you wanted more, you had to get up and get it yourself. • Approximately the first 1/3 of the trip, deck 7 (under the life boats) was closed off for safety reasons. Then it was opened for a few days; but, only ½ of it. They were painting. Finally the deck was opened. However, after a few days ½ the deck was closed off again for safety reasons. However, the side for smokers was open. Was that deck safer for you if you were a smoker? At no time were there ever any lounge chairs allowed on this deck. Everyone was crowded onto decks 13 and 14 by the pools. Almost everything is out in the sun. If you want to get away from the sun, you must go inside. Most ships allow people to walk and to relax on lounge chairs on deck 7 under the life boats. On deck 14 there were so many lounge chairs that there were places where the walking distance between the lounge chairs was about 18” to 2’. Deck 14 is supposed to be a “Power Walking Deck”. With the “Power Walking Deck” not available for walkers and deck 7 closed off most of the time, there was really no place to walk. We ended up walking the hallways in order to get some exercise. • You do not have a free robe in your room. Sometimes the rooms were freezing. We ended up using our beach towels. • Half the time, in the cafeteria, the help only took away the dirty dishes. They did not clean the tables. Often the help were just talking with each other and did not even remove the dirty dishes. People would push the dirty dishes to the end of the table and sit down to eat because there were no clean tables. Many, many people were sick on this trip. You could hear coughing everywhere. The situation in the cafeteria was a health hazard. • We were half way through the tip and still have the messages on our TV that said “Internet & TV reception. Please mind that while crossing, TV reception may be slow and subject to interruption, due to limited satellite coverage” However, we have been on other ships in this area and never had a problem. • The only TV English station for most of the trip was Euronews if you could get it. • The entire one side of the ship by the pool is for smoking. This meant that while you were in the pool, you could really smell the smoke and could not get away from it. • The entire one side of the ship on deck 7 is for smoking. • On other ships, you get a condensed newspaper in all languages for free. Here, you must pay 3 to 5 Euros per day for a newspaper and you have to order it a day in advance. • Our room steward was good; however, most of the help was unfriendly. • Approximately once a week you got a free movie. There was a choice of about 6 movies to choose from. The rest of the time you had to pay for it. The cost for a movie was 7.00 Euros and there were only 34 movies listed. • The large movie by the pool only played propaganda for things to buy on the ship. They never played movies there. • If you like opera, the entertainment was okay. If you don’t you are out of luck. We only had 4 days of entertainment that was not opera out of 33 days. • When you come back from excursions, they do not give you a wet towel or a cold drink as other cruise ships do. • You never get any US or Canadian news, only news that you get is from a European point of view. • There is very little hand sanitizers. On this ship colds and cough were spreading rapidly. • One pool was supposed to be heated; however, both pools were the same temperature. The only heat came from the sun. • There is no cover to place on the bed to keep the bed and bed spread clean when you load and unload your suitcases. • On the last morning you had to be out of the room by 7:00 a.m. That meant that everyone had to use public restrooms. After the existing toilet tissue and hand towels were depleted, they were not restocked. Needless to say this created quite a problem. Read Less
Sail Date: February 2015
This was to be our holiday cruise of a life time. We had previously cruised with MSC 5 times including several long ocean crossings although not as long as this one. Took the staff more than 3 days to clean the boat - we left Dubai in ... Read More
This was to be our holiday cruise of a life time. We had previously cruised with MSC 5 times including several long ocean crossings although not as long as this one. Took the staff more than 3 days to clean the boat - we left Dubai in a terrible sand storm. We noticed a lot of the little touches were missing - right down to the MSC pens and notepads!! People at our table came down with a terrible virus just a couple of days out. They said that people on their bus in Mumbai were sick and coughing. whether the virus was already on board or whether someone brought it on board is irrelevant -ABSOLUTELY NOTHING WAS DONE BY MSC TO CONTAIN THIS VIRUS. The gentleman from our table actually got hospitalised on board at an outrageous expense. On speaking to people it was the cost of the doctors that prohibited many from going to seek medical help. But what help are antibiotics against a virus - NONE!! My husband got this virus in Langkowi - only lasted 3 days. He got sick again after Singapore and was incredibly sick and remained in the cabin with me bring him fruit, juices, cups of tea and water. I used up all our medications e.g. panadol, throat lozenges etc on my husband but was lucky enough to be given extra panadol from some lovely passengers we met. By this time in excess of 50% of the passengers were sick and the dining rooms were nearly empty. At no time did MSC or their staff implement any preventative health measures. Under their rules they have the power to confine contagious people to their cabins!! Not done!! I succumbed to the virus after Bali - luckily by this time my husband was making a slight recovery and so he took on the role of looking after me while I stayed in our cabin. We went ashore in Brisbane to buy whatever we could get our hands on to make ourselves feel a little better and hopefully recover faster from the virus. Sadly all that happened is that we absolutely wore ourselves out, probably spread the virus to all and sundry in Brisbane and got back to the ship in a relapsed state!!! We had contemplated leaving the ship in Brisbane - in retrospect that would have been the best decision!! We both just got sicker - so finally made the decision to leave the ship in Sydney. I was so sick that I went to the medical centre - they took no notes, and basically told me to leave the ship if I felt I was that sick - and didn't charge me. According to their records I did not ever visit the doctor!! Were they getting concerned about the large numbers of sick people attending the medical centre and do they have to make official reports when a certain number of people on board report unwell??? From our point of view this trip was an absolute shocker. We contacted MSC on many, many occasions and are yet to receive an adequate response from them. It feels like they hope we tire of complaining and give up!! We were booked to cruise from Genoa to Durban (South Africa) in October with MSC, but have just cancelled. They refunded our money less the non-refundable deposit, but at no time have they contacted us to find out why or to offer any sort of solution. THEY JUST DONT CARE!! - that much is obvious. WOULD NEVER, EVER, EVER RECOMMEND MSC TO ANYONE!!! I could go on, but I'm sure you get the message - the cruise was an absolute shocker. We felt really concerned about the people joining this ship in Australia for the Gallipoli cruise. Reading reports it seems the majority of them got sick too!! Unless this ship is taken out of action and cleaned properly they will never get rid of this virus. SHOCKING, SHOCKING, SHOCKING Read Less
Sail Date: February 2015
Well what a joke!! we got on at Dubai, First thing we did was get a drinks package, went to our room it was nothing like on the pictures there was no throw bed was not clean the cabin was not that clean. The cabin steward did not introduce ... Read More
Well what a joke!! we got on at Dubai, First thing we did was get a drinks package, went to our room it was nothing like on the pictures there was no throw bed was not clean the cabin was not that clean. The cabin steward did not introduce himself. One case did not get to the room so we went and asked were it was it contained a bottle of vodka and 4 small bottles off the plane we were un a wear of there drinks policy ( but why when we had brought a drinks package it mattered) don't make sense, the case had the handle bent badly and would not go into it socket so can not use it again and all 5 cases matched we can not get the same to replace the one they damaged they offered us £28.00 from customer service this is why this review is late going on here, we are still having trouble with them they are unhelpful and rude . Any way back to the cruise, went to dinner the first night got dressed up the table was not big enough for the four of us I asked for soup to start, came out I asked for a soup spoon and they gave me a desert one well then the steak came it was braising steak or shoe leather I call it tomato two quarters and a few peas and chips just all thrown on the plate the desert was ok. So at that time we had not sailed if we had been on our own I would have got off the ship but when we had told friends that it is better cruising than doing hotel. What a fool I was made to look. I went to customer service after dinner and spoke to them they did not understand at all what I was talking about I was told they don't have soup spoons on the ship yet we have paid 5 star prices the next night the head waiter was serving us so I said to him why we did not complain about the staff in dinning room they were very good it was the food and this carried on though out the cruise. Entertainment was brill the second night but then it seemed that it was the same show each night but changed there costumes. The Bar staff was hit and miss and the food in the cafeteria was cold (I CALL IT PIG SWILL) In Dubai we stayed in a hotel before the cruise and after I wish we had stayed all the time as it was fantastic there and I would go back but NEVER US MSC AGAIN worst company going I thought the jade was bad with NCL the best company so far I have found are Royal Caribbean or P&O, still to try the rest before I do the world Cruise we are still having problems with them 5 months after the cruise finished One word of warning don't board MSC. Read Less
Sail Date: February 2015
MSC – 2015 REPORT ON CRUISE ON THE ‘MSC ORCHESTRA’ 21/02/2015 – 26/03/2015 *CAPTAIN - noticeable by his absence from the passengers. He was not seen mixing with any passengers until the 32nd night. Even the noonday reports were ... Read More
MSC – 2015 REPORT ON CRUISE ON THE ‘MSC ORCHESTRA’ 21/02/2015 – 26/03/2015 *CAPTAIN - noticeable by his absence from the passengers. He was not seen mixing with any passengers until the 32nd night. Even the noonday reports were read out by the Cruise Director. *ENTERTAINMENT – whilst not doubting the quality of the artists, the amount of opera and classical music was too much. We only saw about half a dozen shows at the most, some nights there was no show on at all. There was a lack of choice of entertainment if one did not go to the show, in fact there was none at all! During the entire 33 nights of the cruise there was not one single country and western night for example, when two might have been expected. *FOOD – the main dining room was not to bad even though there seemed to be a large contingent of European styled food as well as to many dishes with rice as the side, the buffet restaurant was at best second rate. If one did not go at the beginning of the serving, the food was frequently cold or barely warm. At the height of some of the busy periods half the buffet was closed! If one arrived later in the meal period as well as it being cold much of the meat was tough and hard to cut and chew. Due to the buffet being half closed, there was often a shortage of seating and it seemed that no one thought to open the other part of the buffet when the numbers were up. Choice of food was very limited at lunch time. *SERVICE – faultless in virtually all respects, the staff were beyond fault in their efforts to please. Our cabin boy was a typical example and could not do enough for us. *CLEANLINESS – also cannot fault the ship as when there was nothing for some of the crew to do all they did was clean the ship. It was a credit to them all. *AMMENITIES – one of the public toilets was out of commission for four (4) days! Even after we had left the pirate zone, deck 7 was closed to the public to often. When it was open there was no seating to relax with. CYCLONE – We went through a cyclone (Nathan) and were unable to get into Cairns, this was a safety issue as we were going to tender there. The handling of the ship was very smooth in this period and was a credit to the Australian Pilot on board at the time. *EXTRAS – we have never had to pay for water or coffee during or after dinner before, this we found alien. *SHUT DOWN – why the ship had to shut down between the hours of 12:30 pm and 3:30 every afternoon is highly questionable. This is even more strange as the shops stayed open till 11:00 pm every night. The only exceptions to this rule were the Casino (at sea) and some of the bars. *LANGUAGES – after four days or so, the announcements in five languages started to wear a bit thin. This was especially so when the announcements took up to 15 or 20 minutes. In one example the Cruise Director said he had a short announcement to make prior to the show commencing. The English version went on for about 4 or 5 mins, the four other languages went on and on. There were cries from the audience to ‘get on with it’, but to no avail, the show started at nearly 9:20 pm! In another instance there was an Italian comedian on and he was telling his jokes (including the punch line) in five languages. As a further example there was an announcement in English during dinner and everybody quietened down to listen during the English version. As soon as it had finished the general level of conversation went up and the other languages were barely audible. *EXCURSIONS - many of the excursions were grossly overpriced, e.g. $40 each to get into Brisbane and return was too much especially as the ship had to park 25 klms from the city centre. As an ex-bus driver I am aware of cost of bus rides and this was an extremely expensive price. Many of the excursions departure times were not known until late the night before; this has never been experienced on other cruise lines. *DUTY FREE – we found this very expensive and were able to obtain alcohol at similar or cheaper prices at ‘Dan Murphy’s’. Many of the passengers waited until we reached Langkawi and paid a lot less than the prices on the ship. *MANAGEMENT – we voiced some of our concerns to the Guest Relations Manager, Miriam Richter, and she was not interested in our point of view. All she did was trot out the company policy that it was what they did in Europe and it was therefore the same here. Senior management appear to be grossly out of touch with modern day staff management skills. The staff are told to say ‘good morning/afternoon/evening, hello’ etc anymore than that and if seen by a supervisor are ‘chatted’ over the matter. *BIG SCREEN – this (on deck 13) could be used for showing movies but instead all it gives out is MSC propaganda. This is a waste of a good asset. *TV – for the early part of the cruise all that we could get was Italian programmes, none in English except for a continuous roll of MSC propaganda. *CASINO – very expensive up to 6:00 pm minimum bet was 3 Euros (about $4:50) but after 6:00 pm it went up to 5 Euros ($7:50) certainly the most expensive cruise line I have known. *OVERNIGHT STAYS – Singapore; arrived at 9:00 pm on day one and left at 6:00 pm on day 2, which was not bad. However in Sydney we arrived at 7:00 am on day one and left at 01:00 am on day 2, some 17 hrs after arrival. *GOLD CARDS – after queuing for over an hour, a passenger walked to the front displayed a gold card and was allowed on a tender straight away. When this was queried with the reception on the boat we were told this should not have been allowed. It seems someone forgot to tell the security people. *DRINKS PACKAGE – This was a good deal but we were not informed of the 15% service charge at the time of purchase. We only found out several days into the cruise. *GENERAL – MSC really needs to lift their game if they wish to operate from Australian waters in the near future. Notice of customer concerns needs to be taken onboard as there are a number of similar complaints throughout various outlets of social media. The cruise that followed ours is a charter cruise where only English is spoken and different entertainment occurs it will be interesting to see how full the theatre is instead of the half empty ones of our cruise. The mixing of the guests on this cruise was the best we have ever known but unfortunately for all the wrong reasons; we simply had nothing else to do. Even the Scrabble games were in German, but we managed until we were able to pick one up ourselves in Adelaide. Too often the management of the ship stands behind company policy almost as though they are afraid to use any initiative. What might be alright for Europe is not alright for Australia. Although passengers paid a low price for their tickets, certain standards have to be met. Other cruise lines can do it for a similar price, why can’t MSC? After all this was a relocation cruise for the later charter to Gallipoli and beyond and it was only a question of ‘bums on seats’. My wife and I would be reluctant to recommend MSC to any of our friends now or in the future.   Read Less
Sail Date: February 2015
As this was my first cruise I was anticipating many of the good qualities and values which I had heard from others who had cruised. Fortunately for them they had, presumably, not ventured on an MSC ship, especially 'The ... Read More
As this was my first cruise I was anticipating many of the good qualities and values which I had heard from others who had cruised. Fortunately for them they had, presumably, not ventured on an MSC ship, especially 'The Orchestra' The ship was very splendid and well appointed, the crew, especially those who were seen in public, the servers general staff were excellent in carrying out their tasks. Beyond that it was very far from what I had been lead to expect. The food, in the resturants and the cafeteria was of poor quality, variety, display, attractiveness or any other values which can make a meal more than just a basic necessity. What was put out in the cafeteria at mid-day was 'slopped' onto large metal trays and refilled as it was/or not consumed. Finding what was available often took a long circular journey around the layout. All which was collected was put onto a meat tray sized plastic plate, including the main course, drinks and additional courses, then a table was need to be searched for. The whole process meaning that by the time one had gathered the food and seated it was often cold. No attempt appeared to have been taken to give any variety to different days' selections, or any attempt to make it look interesting or attractive. The resturant meals looked better in their presentation but were very small in portion, often overcooked or tough. The whole week in both eating places I seldom saw a real portion of meat or fish, or a meaningful selection of vegetables (are peas so exclusive!) Sweets were very basic in type and selection, cheeses difficult to find on the serving plate. In short very poor and very, very uninspired and not what 'cruising cuisine' is generally accepted as being in any way. Any 'extra' was charged for, water, other soft drinks and basic requirements, and when charges were made they were, I consider, ridiculously high (a jukuzzi - £25) Most of these comments, and I could make many more of the inadequacies on the provisions on the ship, were backed up by fellow travellers with no prompting necessary This was my first cruise and its poor quality has certainly made it, to play safe, that it will be my last!! Read Less
1 Helpful Vote
Sail Date: January 2015
I travelled with my family of four adults and to say the cruise was a disappointment is an understatement. We've been on other cruise lines before which are far more superior in every way. To start with the staff: getting on to the ... Read More
I travelled with my family of four adults and to say the cruise was a disappointment is an understatement. We've been on other cruise lines before which are far more superior in every way. To start with the staff: getting on to the cruise, no one showed us where we should be going, when I asked for help I was merely shunned into the lift with no directions. Once getting to the room we realised the cards had been assigned to the wrong rooms, we went to reception for help but the woman was unbelievably rude to us all. We found the staff (mainly bar staff and reception) the WHOLE weekend to be rude and not helpful in anyway. Although I must give credit to the cabin staff who were always pleasant and kept the cabins remarkably clean. The Food: we were pleased with the pizza on the first day but unless you're willing to eat pizza (which somehow managed to vary in taste, with little toppings) every day then you're going to be disappointed and I don't agree with them using plastic plates. The buffet was always rammed with people pushing and shoving, running to find tables, no one knew how to que. All the food, especially the meat, was very poor quality and bland especially in the restaurants. We had the later sitting at 9pm, even though we ordered two courses we were leaving the restaurant at 11:30pm still hungry. The food was absolutely terrible! worse than school dinners. One night we waited an hour for four bowls of soup whilst the tables around us had all had 4 courses, this seemed to be the norm every night we went so we didn't bother going the last 3 nights. We didn't have one good meal and ended up living on bread and fruit. Drinks Package: very reasonably priced, however every cocktail changed as there was a lack of care when making the drinks and incredibly sweet by putting far too much syrup in every drink, I honestly don't know how they managed to make me a mojito 6 times and it tasted different every time! I had a few cocktails where they didn't even put alcohol in! Entertainment is very poor. One OK show out of 6 with nothing to do during the day time on the days the cruise is at sea. However, the saxophone and singer in the wine bar were the best entertainment by far yet were shoved in a corner whilst crap Blackpool karaoke type singers had the main stage. Make sure whatever you do you don't ever book a trip on board as the prices are triple what they are off! It just didn't make sense. We booked a trip online for around £40 per adult where as on the boat the exact same trip was around £100. The passengers on the cruise especially ruined the holiday for us all (mostly the italians). We all were in disbelief how little manners they all have! Letting their kids run riot, pushing and shoving, never even heard of the words "please" or "thank you". Whilst waiting for lifts they'd barge in and not move to let anyone else in or out. They seem to shout every single word they say. It was utterly disgraceful. We even saw a woman push 6 plates full of food onto the floor just so she could sit down!!! This has put me off cruise lines for life, there is absolutely no way I would ever go with MSC or recommend MSC to ANYONE   Read Less
Sail Date: December 2014
My parents have been on many cruises and based on their advice myself and husband booked the all inclusive package for 1 week for Christmas. I cant even begin to describe what a waste of time and money this cruise was. Firstly the food ... Read More
My parents have been on many cruises and based on their advice myself and husband booked the all inclusive package for 1 week for Christmas. I cant even begin to describe what a waste of time and money this cruise was. Firstly the food was very disappointing, lack of choice, very poor quality (especially meat) we ate 1 nice meal on Christmas eve in the dining restaurant, outside of that we lived on bread and pizza. Breakfast had a good continental selection. Drinks package (approx 26 per day) is worthwhile as many drinks are included in this list (soft / alcoholic/ water etc all included) The Good: Process for disembarking when docked was easy (apart from when checking out). The rest: Completely over booked, deck 13 (with the pool and sun loungers) was mobbed like a cattle market, not enough beds or all beds squashed beside each other with no room to even put a water bottle next to you, the noise on the deck was incredible, not relaxing at all. Jacuzzi area lovely - but not when its full , I counted 16 people in one 8 seater Jacuzzi. Kids screaming everywhere dive bombing into jacuzzi's, absolutely no where on this ship to relax or read a book. We are in our 30's and ended up going to the library just for a few minutes peace!! Areas are not segregated so its basically a free for all on the deck. Entertainment is poor. One good show out of 6. No entertainment during the day. Cabins small but very clean, en suite very clean and good shower area. Staff - mixed, mostly good service but some very rude staff at front desk and the casino. Overall this was one of the worst holidays I have been on, I would compare it to a 2-3 star Lanzarote hotel costing around €250 for the week. The people on the ship bashing into you, running at the buffet pushing and shoving like they had never seen food before - most of the passengers on the ship acted poorly with little manners or respect for others around them. Check out - our bill was incorrect which was fine mistakes happen, we spoke to reception on the morning before disembarking who noted the errors and would send a new bill. On arrival to the cabin that night the bill had not been amended, back to reception for a 45 minute queue to have the bill corrected. at 11.45pm we disembarked for our flight at 3.15 am, on leaving the ship security would not allow us to leave because our bill was "unpaid" after 10 minutes of waiting with other passengers reception finally confirmed our bill had been paid and we could leave the ship. We paid €2900 for this trip - biggest waste of money, if you are looking for a special or relaxing holiday avoid this ship at all costs. . Read Less
MSC Orchestra Ratings
Category Editor Member
Cabins 4.0 4.0
Dining 4.0 3.0
Entertainment 3.0 3.4
Public Rooms 4.0 4.0
Fitness Recreation 4.0 3.3
Family 3.0 3.3
Shore Excursion 4.0 3.1
Enrichment 2.0 2.8
Service 3.0 3.4
Value For Money 4.0 3.3
Rates 4.0 3.9

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